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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
26
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Posted - 2013.10.02 12:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:
1. Turning hi-sec into another warzone is just stupid. You have low-sec, faction warfare, and nul-sec for that. A safe industrial base is what many players DEPEND on in order not have to be beholden to a few Alliances. Or players who don't want to deal with being raped by some gank squad or goon BLOB everytime they log online and want to simply sell something.
2. Many hi-sec players will not be able to compete or fight militarily a large alliance. This is just delusional. And if you think spending 500 mil for PI access is worth it - that's just off the charts crazy thinking.
1) Actually the game needs to get away from it's safe industrial base. It's turned the game into spreadsheets online and industrial tasks in-game is little more than applied accountancy.
Industry in Eve needs an overhaul. There needs to be some way for me to gain an edge by maybe doing something different, and there needs to be some risk/reward involved, so that those of us willing to take a little more risk can earn more from it (I'd manufacture in NPC null-sec if it was cheaper than high-sec for one.)
Throw some instability/wars etc into the mix and that's even more opportunities - it just needs a little creative thinking to capitalise on them.
The people complaining to CCP about not changing hi-sec industry remind me of the record companies - rather than moving on and innovating, they're just whining to the legislature to allow them stumble along as-is.
2) Hire people to do the fighting for you then. RvB are high-sec based and very interested in working with high-sec industrialists. |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
27
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Posted - 2013.10.02 17:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:
I think there is this underlying assumption that Eve gameply in hi-sec - and those players who play Eve in hi-sec (some exclusively) want this kind of WAR activity.
I know of 6000 players who play eve almost exclusively in high-sec, who are looking forward to this...
And I wouldn't be surprised to see E-UNI and their 2000 members take part in claiming some POCOs around the area where they're based.
So that's 8000 hi-sec players that will get some additional content.
I really hate it when lone players start claiming to talk of all of high sec... |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
28
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Posted - 2013.10.02 18:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:
I think here is the problem in a nutshell. The idea that Eve must "get away from it's safe industrial base." I disagree. I think there is room in the sand box for both types of play. There is plenty of PvP in low-sec and nul-sec. Not every player in Eve wants to PvP - some actually want to build stuff, and do it in the relative safety of hi-sec.
The problem has been this insistence that the Builders of Eve must also be PvP'rs. I think that makes the sand box smaller.
There is plenty of ways to expand the game and make the game more exciting for nul-sec alliances other than just opening up hi-sec to them. It's just too bad CPP doesn't have the imagination or creativity to think of better ways than this idiotic hi-sec POCO plan (at least the way it stands now.)
Straw man.
I didn't suggest forcing industrialists to PvP. I said that industry should not be safe and should involve varying levels of risk, for which you get different levels of reward.
The example I used was manufacturing costs, and that manufacturing in null-sec - which carries more risk - should therefore be cheaper. I'm not forcing you to manufacture in null-sec, you can accept less risk and pay more. Alternatively you may be able to manufacture in null-sec with the reduced cost base, and find somebody else willing to take on the shipping risk.
Even in the simple example above, there are now choices to be made, deals to be struck and opportunities for smarter players to get ahead in the game.
And I've still not forced anybody to PvP in spaceships.
Even with the POCOs, there's no insistance that you get involved with PvP. You can pay RvB to clear a POCO so you can claim it for your corp. Then you can tax it!
Despite what's being said in this topic, it's exteremely unlikely that all high-sec is going to be owned by Goons. It's also unlikely that all high-sec is even going to be owned by the larger entities.
So if you want to continue to do PI, it's just a matter of finding some planets where the POCO has a reasonable owner.
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Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
28
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Posted - 2013.10.02 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:Give me a fukken break. Maybe this is why hi-sec Industrialists don't want to deal with the nul-sec sociopathic crowd ...
Never lived in null-sec, never been part of a null-sec alliance. I've visited null-sec, for sure, but as things stand at the moment I wouldn't want to live there.
Sorry for wanting a game that actually challenges me, and rewards me for using my brains.
If you want something that's simply "press button get reward" then I suggest that Eve Online isn't the game for you. |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:
I myself think its likely RvB, who is in the perfect positon to claim a lot of high sec poco's.
1. RvB members are ready for PvP anytime
2. RvB members fly cheap stuff so the cost of "getting blown up" is negligible
3. RvB members are very present in high sec because the live in high sec.
4. In comparison to 0 sec and low sec PvPer's RvB pilots (mostly) dont have security status issues.
Its important to note, that the new player owned custom's office have no standing requirements towards the space ruling NPC faction. This is, besides the scaling war declaration costs, another disadvantage for small corps since high NPC faction standing can be better achieved with smaller corps. .....this has been mentioned by Talconia a few pages afore.
You missed...
5. RvB has alts with high NPC faction standings!
As was pointed out by the Goons, we'd use a separate small corp to hold the POCOs which has the standings to anchor them. Place the corp in the alliance and the war declaration mechanics do the rest. Even if the corp had to stay outside the alliance, then you've got the assistance part of the war mechanics to contend with. |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
32
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:Hi-sec Industrialists just can't wait for this new "feature"
As an industrialist (who is based in high sec because it makes little sense to be anywhere else with the current game state) - indeed I can't wait for this feature.
This is the first sensible thing you've said on this thread.
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Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.10.04 09:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
The idea that Goons are going to control *all* production of specific materials by controlling all of a specific planet type seems to be a common theme - so let's run some numbers (I'm hoping here that the people on the thread claiming to be high-sec industrialists are capable of doing maths)...
There's a rundown of planets here: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/planets - they're also available in CCPs static data export.
The map data says that there are 1489 Plasma planets in space that players can reach. Breakdown is:
High-sec: 247
Low-sec: 148
Null-sec: 620 (164 of those are in CFC-controlled regions)
W-space: 474
So currently Goons control around 164/1489 = 11% of all plasma planets. I'm not aware of Goons controlling any POCOs around low-sec planets.
Assuming Goons did manage to put up POCOs and shut down all high-sec Plasma planets. The would give them 411 planets out of 1489 - which is 27% of all plasma planets. Probably not enough to exclusively control a material.
That's a rather simplistic view of the situation, but if you want to make some more realistic calculations you have to start making some assumptions. So here we go:
1) High-sec planets on average output 50% of the output of a null-sec planet.
2) Low-sec planets on average output 75% of the output of a null-sec planet.
3) There's a fair spread of low-output to high-output planets within each type of sec-status.
4) 66% of w-space systems have residents.
using these assumptions we can turn the above numbers into null-sec equivalent planets and we get.
High-sec: 124
Low-sec: 98
Null-sec: 620 (164 direct CFC)
W-space: 313
Total: 1155
High+sec plus CFC space now gives a monopoly of 25% of materials.
Now w-space is pretty much controlled by small groups working independently, and it would be really hard for Goons to exert influence over them. That means that 27% of the supply is completely out of Goon hands.
Goons could shut-down all the low-sec POCOs for another 8.5% of plasma planets. But that only leaves them with 33% control.
The big unknown is the 40% of plasma planets in the hands of other null-sec alliances. Certainly Goons may be able to work with some of those groups, but unlike Technetium, Plasma planets can be found throughout the galaxy, and coming to agreements to control supply on that wide a scale is very unlikely.
So high-sec industrials, what's the analysis telling you?
As far as this high-sec industrialist is concerned I find it very unlikely that Goons will be able to control enough supply for a long-enough time to squeeze the market in the same way that they did with OTEC. I would expect the sources of supply that Goons can't control to compensate and increase production as soon as particular materials become more profitable.
At best I think Goons could cause a shock to the system and a short-term price spike. They'd probably do this by grabbing all the plasma planets from Interbus as soon as possible and buying up large quantities of material from the market. The profits would then come because of all the idiots running around like Chicken Little yelling about the sky falling in...
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Green Gambit
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.10.04 09:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Also having now had time to think about this a little - I've got a couple of suggestions about the implementation...
1) I'm not entirely clear on this from the devblog, but it looks like there's no advantage in destroying an Interbus Customs Office and replacing it with a POCO (tax on other players aside.) There was an advantage in other areas of space as you could replace the customs office to save yourself on the tax. A drop in the NPC tax purely by replacing the customs office would encourage players in the quieter areas of high-sec to claim a POCO.
2) Rather than having the tax be some ISK-equivalent value, it would be more interesting game-play-wise for it to be a percentage of the material itself (with fractions rounded up). Hence to collect your tax, you have to collect the material from the POCO and sell it on the market.
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